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AMD Zen
08-08-2016, 04:35 PM,
#11
AMD Zen
Ah yes, I did indeed miss the point it was a 2500K. Still impressed with the OC.

So just to take a step back to the OP, if the upgrade is for moving to AMD next gen, was this because of the multi-cores for the video rendering or for the snappiness? EVO bug aside, just want to clarify with bobbo27, was snappiness an expectation while video rendering or everything outside of that?

So is the video rendering speed too slow too, or just general speed responsiveness?

Again I'm quick to recommend Intel like Mathieu detailed but can recommend differently depending on what your looking to achieve.

Cheers everyone.


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CPU: Intel i7-2600K @4.2GHz Mobo: ASRock P67 EXTREME4 GEN3 RAM: Corsair Vengence 8GB 1600Mhz DDR3 GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 3GB
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08-08-2016, 04:43 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-08-2016, 04:55 PM by bobbo27.)
#12
RE: AMD Zen
Excellent article on the CPUs Mathieu! I think I'll probably wait to pick from either the Amd Zen or the upcoming i7 7700k, but really rooting for the Zen.the other option would be the 6800k, but I think it's probably overkill for me. How do I know if my video card is a bottleneck? I assume I should upgrade it also, the 950gtx looks decent. I don't want to spend too much money on video.
CPU: Intel i5-2500K 4.7Ghz Mobo: AsRock Extreme3 Gen 3 GPU: Gigabyte GTX260 SOC
Mem: 24GB DDR3 SSD: Samsung 840 PRO 256GB
PSU: EVGA 850 G2 (new)
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08-08-2016, 06:51 PM,
#13
RE: AMD Zen
the gpu as it stands now is not a bottleneck as the cpu threads do all of the conversion processing you can verify by running cpu-z and gpu-z. the cpu should be pushing 100 percnt while the gpu should be running a light load. in my last reply i said that some apps can use cuda cores for acceleration but in these later drivers nvidia has basically stripped any access to them unless you are running quadro cards. i think a well threaded cpu will outperform any cuda acceleration anyways.

so i would look at throwing more money at cpu threads than gpu. i would also look at my storage system. another reason it may appear to be slower is an hdd that may be filling up as the more you write to one the more of the inside sectors are being used thus slower to write. hopefully the multi terabyte ssd's will be available at reasonable prices soon.
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08-08-2016, 11:04 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-08-2016, 11:09 PM by MathieuB.)
#14
RE: AMD Zen
Yes, I'm looking forward to AMD Zen too.

For display purposes, when converting videos, your video card is hardly working. The only reason to upgrade your video card would be for either playing video games or requiring additional/different video outputs. Upgrading will make zero difference in performance while converting video. This is 100% CPU bottleneck.

Upgrading your SSD to a PCI-Express based one might make a very slight improvement in overall system responsiveness, but the Samsung 840 Pro isn't exactly slow either. I can't imagine video converting having enough throughput for your SSD to be a bottleneck. No need to upgrade there IMHO.

As mentionned before, if your SSD is too full, it will slow down. Keep it under 80% of its storage capacity for optimal performance.

Mostly looking forward to it because hopefully AMD will bring some much needed competition to Intel and motivate Intel to bring more competitive products at better prices. I mean, we're still paying the same price, if not even more, for quad-core CPUs from Intel, same goes for higher end CPUs. Intel are keeping prices inflated for their bottom line.

As for the next generation of Intel CPUs, I'm not expecting much. Same architecture, same process node, just 'optimized'. So I'm expecting a slight frequency bump, slightly reduced power, maybe both. Nothing special.

I'm currently using my laptop and I have no problem bringing the Intel Core i7-4870HQ Quad-Core + Hyper-Threading 2.5-3.7GHz to its knees. I'm considering building a workstation to get more CPU power for heavy photo editing, perhaps eventually video editing. Move to a PCI-Express SSD too. I'm thinking heavily overclocked 6-core, maybe 8-core if the price is right.

So yeah, I'm keeping an eye open for AMD Zen and Intel next-gen Core CPUs too. Obviously to tell you all more about them, but for myself too.
Laptop: MSI GS30 Shadow-045 Dimensions: 12.6" x 8.9" x 0.8" 2.65lbs CPU: Intel Core i7-4870HQ Quad-Core + Hyper-Threading OC 2.5-3.9GHz RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Video Card: Intel Iris Pro 5200 Storage: 2x128GB SDD RAID0 Audio: ASUS Xonar U3 USB Sound Card + Audio-Technica ATH-M50 headphones Screen: 13.3" - 1920 x 1080 IPS + 27" Dell P2715Q IPS 3840 x 2160 Keyboard: Filco Majestouch MX Cherry Blue Mouse: Logitech MX518
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08-12-2016, 04:00 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-12-2016, 04:37 PM by bobbo27.)
#15
Smile  RE: AMD Zen
Quote:per pedwards:

So just to take a step back to the OP, if the upgrade is for moving to AMD next gen, was this because of the multi-cores for the video rendering or for the snappiness? EVO bug aside, just want to clarify with bobbo27, was snappiness an expectation while video rendering or everything outside of that?

So is the video rendering speed too slow too, or just general speed responsiveness?

I guess 'snapiness' is lacking in general , even though I don't give my computer alot of heavy duty use, I still like things very responsive.....my system is about 5 yrs old now (although minor upgrades in the last 2 yrs) ......I think its time to upgrade and increase my speed for the upcoming years...was going to upgrade this year to the 6700k but after reading comparisons to the 2500k ,I didn't think it was worth the money...
I'm really holding out and rooting for the AMD cpu to be competitive with Intels' offerings..IF not, I'll probably 'settle' for the 7700k or 6800k.... Big Grin...like you guys suggested, I'll spend the bulk of my $$ on the cpu, maybe keep my existing video card,and hope to have enough left for a sweet little Samsung 950 pro M.2 SSD........
....

B
CPU: Intel i5-2500K 4.7Ghz Mobo: AsRock Extreme3 Gen 3 GPU: Gigabyte GTX260 SOC
Mem: 24GB DDR3 SSD: Samsung 840 PRO 256GB
PSU: EVGA 850 G2 (new)
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08-12-2016, 04:43 PM,
#16
RE: AMD Zen
Almost every day I use three different systems:

Win7 workstation, stock i7 3770 with a four year old micron SSD
Win81 desktop, overclocked i7 4790K with a samsung EVO 850 SSD
macbook pro i7-4850HQ ( 2.3Ghz turbo to 3.5Ghz) with a 1TB PCIe SSD SM1024F.

The snappiest system is my macbook pro, and even though the CPU is slower for most things it is as fast or faster than my 4790K for most work I throw at it.

I run VMs on all three systems to host other guest operating systems for dev/test work and I think the thing that gives the Macbook the edge is the blazing fast storage speed.

I only game on the 4790K, and I only do a little bit of video editing, but that is usually on the mac. The older workstation is slower but it has other handicaps imposed on it due to the environment it has to run in.

So without wanting to talk you out of a new system, you might give that 840 EVO some love with the firmware update and then profile your system to see what is holding it back. It might be the CPU, or maybe the storage. let us know what you end up doing.
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.7Ghz Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G HSF: Cryorig R1 Ultimate
Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 2400 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
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08-13-2016, 11:12 AM,
#17
RE: AMD Zen
Dan-H

thanks for the information, I downloaded the Samsung firmware update, apparently it has
already been applied......My Windows installation is only about 6 weeks old (Alienware X64 bit version),
so it should be ok....
What software would I use to benchmark my system to find out if something is holding it back?

B
CPU: Intel i5-2500K 4.7Ghz Mobo: AsRock Extreme3 Gen 3 GPU: Gigabyte GTX260 SOC
Mem: 24GB DDR3 SSD: Samsung 840 PRO 256GB
PSU: EVGA 850 G2 (new)
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08-14-2016, 12:01 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-14-2016, 08:41 PM by Dan-H.)
#18
RE: AMD Zen
B

full disclosure, I'm a Unix/Linux fan that also works on a few windoze machines. I'm sure there are better ways and better tools than what I'm going to suggest so hopefully others will chime in.

And, I don't have an exact approach. I usually look at each system and tinker with it until I'm reasonably happy with the outcome - or simply run out of time and have to move on (usually with my family's system this is the case) and, often I can make a huge improvement by fixing the worst problem so it works out OK, but for pushing a system to its best, I'm not sure of any one tool that runs everything, measures everything and points a finger at the problem area.

fire up resmon, and then run each of your programs for a few minutes that pushes your system.

What resource was pegged. CPU ? Memory? Disk?

If resmon indicates your CPU is the most constrained resource, then you can focus your energy there.

If the CPU is not pegged when running your video program, then disk I/O or Memory are the next places to look. I've not really looked into what the video processing is doing, but I'm assuming it is simply opening fairly large file, reading into memory, changing it in memory and then writing it back to the file system.

edit: since it is unlikely that the entire video can be held in memory, the sustained reading, converting, writing will be stressing the reading from disk into memory, processing in memory and writing out to disk. The key is to find where the program is "waiting" and I would try to do this by seeing which resource (CPU, Memory or Disk) is utilized to the max.

CPU is easiest because you have a percentage utilization.
Memory and Disk are harder because it is some other number, but quite simply if all CPU cores are not maxed out, then the program is waiting for something, likely I/O to disk. /edit

( so again, this is assuming CPU is not at 100% ) Are you using all 24GB of memory? Is there a program setting that limits the amount of RAM?

One more thing, If you suspect file I/O, is your virus scanner running on the source and destination directories for the video?

As far as raw benchmarks, I've used x264 to use encoding when I was tuning my overclock. and I've used crystaldiskmark to measure disk performance, but I don't know of a tool that tests the combination of disk I/O and encoding that details where the bottleneck lies.

sorry for the rambling, but as I said, I don't really have a process but instead try to run things and see what stands out and then if possible tweak it.

good luck.

edit2: here is a run of crystaldiskmark 5.1.2 on my evo 850. This was with the virus scanner running. I'm not sure where cdm writes the files or I would also add the directory to the exclusions and re-run to see the effect.

   

They advise to only compare scores using the same version of CDM, as the tests seem to be updated with each major or minor version.
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.7Ghz Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G HSF: Cryorig R1 Ultimate
Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 2400 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
PSU: Seasonic SS-760XP Platinum Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200
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08-14-2016, 02:13 PM, (This post was last modified: 08-15-2016, 01:32 AM by PwnBroker.)
#19
RE: AMD Zen
the tool is part of windows, go to search and type in "perfmon", "resmon" or you can right click on the tool bar and bring up task manager and go to "resmon" from there. then do as dan outlined in his post. with "perfmon" you can create data logs if you need to isolate even further. it has more choices as to what you can monitor but you have to manually set it up. "resmon" is an all in one view type of tool, just expand all of the menus and you can monitor all the basics at once.

i will add to dans post, check applications and services for any unusually high cpu utilization such as adobe flash, windows updater, etc. the only high cpu usage you should have is going to be your video editing. for windows 7 and 8.1 there has been trouble with windows updates getting stuck and not updating/high cpu usage. there a couple of things you need to do to get it to update correctly and be sure to check that you have the current windows updates. also if you have services or start programs that that are cpu hogs then you can shut them down in "msconfig" or exit, pause them from task manager, at least while using your video software.

as dan mentioned, and i mentioned in an earlier post check your hard disk usage and also check to see how many hard faults you are encountering. this will tell you how much, if any, that is being written to the page file during memory swaps. also look at the read and write speed to hard disk. like i said in a previous post, as a hard disk fills it will get slower and slower overtime as it writes toward the center of the platter thus slowing the entire system down when it has to access the hard drive. remember the total system is only as fast as the slowest device.

good luck.
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08-18-2016, 10:15 AM,
#20
RE: AMD Zen
New information on AMD Zen, looks promising, but as usual, take it with a grain of salt, Bulldozer looked promising too...

http://techreport.com/review/30540/amd-g...ent-of-zen

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10578/amd-...y-revealed
Laptop: MSI GS30 Shadow-045 Dimensions: 12.6" x 8.9" x 0.8" 2.65lbs CPU: Intel Core i7-4870HQ Quad-Core + Hyper-Threading OC 2.5-3.9GHz RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Video Card: Intel Iris Pro 5200 Storage: 2x128GB SDD RAID0 Audio: ASUS Xonar U3 USB Sound Card + Audio-Technica ATH-M50 headphones Screen: 13.3" - 1920 x 1080 IPS + 27" Dell P2715Q IPS 3840 x 2160 Keyboard: Filco Majestouch MX Cherry Blue Mouse: Logitech MX518
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