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RAM for i7 4790K on Z97 mb
08-21-2014, 10:43 PM,
#11
RE: RAM for i7 4790K on Z97 mb
Well Dan...I ass-umed that you did know something and that you might be toying with me because I didn't. You know...the Internet...a crazy place where people can go to miscommunicate and fabricate alternate realities! LOL

I agree, it sounds like XMP allows for overclocking. Being so new myself the question this brings is....does overclocking RAM mean a voltage increase is necessary to facilitate the process? I don't plan on overclocking the RAM...so just wondering out loud, rhetorically, in the interest of understanding voltage. Because, if this were the case it might mean that faster RAM with higher voltages are indeed overclocked already. One example that left me curious....was when I found a Corsair kit that was 2133mhz, Cas9 and had 1.6v spec. This makes me wonder how and why the Cas10 version stayed at 1.5v. I wonder if this is an example of a higher voltage being needed to accomplish a lower latency.

But enough from me...I'm a dog chasing my own tail. I guess I'm going to slither off and pretend none of this ever happened. If I keep jabbering it's only going to become more and more painfully obvious how much I don't know.

Perhaps someone else can weigh in with an opinion...or can clarify? Thank you for your willingness to help and to bring in new information. If I find anything more definitive I will be sure to update here in this thread.
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08-22-2014, 12:30 AM,
#12
RE: RAM for i7 4790K on Z97 mb
I was poking fun at my self, quoting my own reply. Sorry for the mis communication.

My take is there is no reason to spend money on faster memory if you aren't going to overclock it. I think the MoBo will default to 1600 or 1333, so get a kit that has very tight timings at this speed and you'll be set.

If I were buying that board with that CPU, I'd overclock the memory.

Dan
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.7Ghz Mobo: Gigabyte Z97X Gaming 5 GPU: MSI GTX 970 Gaming 4G HSF: Cryorig R1 Ultimate
Mem: 2 x 8GB G.Skill TridentX DDR3 2400 SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB + a few spinners
PSU: Seasonic SS-760XP Platinum Case: Fractal Design Define R5 Monitors: 2 x Dell 2007FP 1600x1200
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08-22-2014, 09:22 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-22-2014, 10:24 AM by PwnBroker.)
#13
RE: RAM for i7 4790K on Z97 mb
i think that ive mentioned this before on other threads but here goes again.

on the CL number question, generally the lower the number the better(at non-sequential reads) but the sub-timings also play a roll and unless you do the calculations you really dont know how well a kit will perfrom at sequential reads). here is a good article on memory that explains it.(also look down about the middle of the page and click "here" for an indepth article on memory)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6372/memor...ith-gskill

on the 1.5 vs 1.65. most kits above 1866 will be rated at 1.65v. this is the voltage of the highest XMP profile not the JDEC which should be 1.5v(this is what bios will default to and you will have to manually enable XMP profile). if the kit is labled at 1.65v below 1866, this may mean that the silicon they used requires 1.65v to operate.(which would indicate bad silicon used in the chip anyways and should be avoided.)

on the warranty issue. i dont know who puts out that information because XMP is an Intel standard which is tested and certified by Intel. here is an article from intel on the subject:

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/g...e-xmp.html

here is a memory scaling article for haswellSadnotice that some games prefer lower CL than clock freq)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memor...on-haswell
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08-22-2014, 10:24 AM, (This post was last modified: 08-22-2014, 10:43 AM by andiron.)
#14
RE: RAM for i7 4790K on Z97 mb
(08-22-2014, 12:30 AM)Dan-H Wrote: I was poking fun at my self, quoting my own reply. Sorry for the mis communication.

My take is there is no reason to spend money on faster memory if you aren't going to overclock it. I think the MoBo will default to 1600 or 1333, so get a kit that has very tight timings at this speed and you'll be set.

If I were buying that board with that CPU, I'd overclock the memory.

Dan

IF I were to overclock...my thought would be just to OC the CPU...and modestly. My impression of RAM is that the Haswell CPU's do benefit from faster RAM...and faster RAM is...well...faster already. So why must I overclock it? Hope this doesn't sound argumentative because it's an honest question. And...if I can buy, for example, 2133mhz RAM that runs at 1.5v....or whatever voltage....then shouldn't it be sufficiently fast already? Truth here is that I'm really feeling guilty for starting this because I'm truly light years away from being geek enough to understand and don't want to frustrate you, or anyone, in the process. I think I need understanding RAM for Idiots before I will be able to get a proper grip. Blush

(08-22-2014, 09:22 AM)PwnBroker Wrote: i think that ive mentioned this before on other threads but here goes again.

on the CL number question, generally the lower the number the better(at non-sequential reads) but the sub-timings also play a roll and unless you do the calculations you really dont know how well a kit will perfrom at sequential reads). here is a good article on memory that explains it.(also look down about the middle of the page and click "here" for an indepth article on memory)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6372/memor...ith-gskill

on the 1.5 vs 1.65. most kits above 1866 will be rated at 1.65v. this is the voltage of the highest XMP profile not the JDEC which should be 1.5v(this is what bios will default to and you will have to manually enable XMP profile). if the kit is labled at 1.65v below 1866, this may mean that the silicon they used requires 1.65v to operate.(which would indicate bad silicon used in the chip anyways and should be avoided.)

on the warranty issue. i dont know who puts out that information because XMP is an Intel standard which is tested and certified by Intel. here is an article from intel on the subject:

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/g...e-xmp.html

here is a memory scaling article for haswellSadnotice that some games prefer lower CL than clock freq)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7364/memor...on-haswell

PwnBroker, I truly appreciate the response...but as I said to Dan...I'm in over my head trying to understand memory, voltages, Cas ratings and how they relate.

In an earlier post in this thread I had come to the conclusion that I could stay at 1.5v....thinking it was the safe, within warranty, etc, bet. I don't know where people are getting the idea...but it's out there all over the internet. So...are you saying that as long as the memory can be set using XMP that voltages with Haswell can safely go up above 1.5v. Does a lower voltage indicate a more efficient memory? Should I ignore Cas latency? And most importantly...can you give me an example of how I might pick a higher voltage 2133mhz memory.

It might be easier for me to understand if I could compare what I already whittled down to with the Corsair Vengeance. So...

The Corsair Vengeance is rated at 2133mhz, Cas10 1.5v. This is for a 2x8 16gb kit.

Using this can you tell me....

1. Will it overclock and what would happen to voltage if it were oc'd? (not that I feel the need)
2. Is there a benefit to going with another kit...like a 2133mhz Cas9 at 1.6v?
3. Are the listed voltages just minimums?
4. Would you think the increased voltage worth it to get the Cas9 rating?
5. Should I stop trying to understand? Tongue

I think you pretty much said Cas latency was not just a product of rating...but again this is getting off into the weeds.

I don't want to come off as lazy...but perhaps in the end it would be easier to get recommendations on good choices for this build. If I should ignore voltages and can be sure of no problems, no extra heat or shortened lifespan that I have several more I could chose from...making things easier. Up to now I basically chose the Corsair because it was 2133mhz...at a voltage I thought I should stick with...and a decent latency....and would look nice with the build I have in mind...and most of what I read suggests people are happy with their product.

As mentioned previously, I would like to duck out of here before I test anyone's patience. I truly appreciate the help and hope I can understand...or solve this gracefully. Smile
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08-22-2014, 11:27 AM,
#15
RE: RAM for i7 4790K on Z97 mb
to answer all of questions in one sentence: either one of those kits will be fine and you will not be able to tell the difference between the two with a discrete gpu. ive used corsair for several years on customer builds and they make a fine product. ive not used patriot that much but they have a good reputation as well. usually if one maker can get 2133 with 1.5v and the other has to push 1.65v then one has better silicon in the chip(more stable at lower voltages).

its up to you and how much you want to spend. on these newer systems i find that 1866(even with igpu systems) is a happy medium but you may find that higher freq memory costs about the same or maybe a little more and it may be worth the money for that little boost.

good luck
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08-22-2014, 04:38 PM,
#16
RE: RAM for i7 4790K on Z97 mb
(08-22-2014, 11:27 AM)PwnBroker Wrote: to answer all of questions in one sentence: either one of those kits will be fine and you will not be able to tell the difference between the two with a discrete gpu. ive used corsair for several years on customer builds and they make a fine product. ive not used patriot that much but they have a good reputation as well. usually if one maker can get 2133 with 1.5v and the other has to push 1.65v then one has better silicon in the chip(more stable at lower voltages).

its up to you and how much you want to spend. on these newer systems i find that 1866(even with igpu systems) is a happy medium but you may find that higher freq memory costs about the same or maybe a little more and it may be worth the money for that little boost.

good luck

Yep...you pretty much anwered all of my questions...at least for all intents and purposes Big Grin. And I think it's especially interesting to think of how voltage is associated with the quality of the silicon.

After the last post I went back and scoured pcpartpicker and found that the price tends to go up pretty steep from 2133 Cas10 to Cas9...or to a 2400mhz Cas?. Corsair also makes another interesting kit...the Vengeance Pro 2133mhz at Cas9 at 1.6v. But this comes at a pretty big jump in price so I will probably stick with my original choice. Thank you for the help! I wouldn't even consider this build were it not for the kind people I have met here on this site.
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08-22-2014, 05:03 PM,
#17
RE: RAM for i7 4790K on Z97 mb
one thing i forgot to mention about corsair, they have taller heat sink fins on some kits and may not fit with all aftermarket cpu coolers. a lot of the better coolers you can adjust the fan shroud up a little via the clips to allow the taller heat sinks to fit.

good luck
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08-23-2014, 12:22 AM,
#18
RE: RAM for i7 4790K on Z97 mb
(08-22-2014, 05:03 PM)PwnBroker Wrote: one thing i forgot to mention about corsair, they have taller heat sink fins on some kits and may not fit with all aftermarket cpu coolers. a lot of the better coolers you can adjust the fan shroud up a little via the clips to allow the taller heat sinks to fit.

good luck

Well okay! So there's always something to think about....hope I can make things fit without conflict. I currently have a Zalman Performa 10X that I bought a few years back....still in the box new. I've been told it will work with the 1150 socket....otherwise I would be tempted towards the more recently recommended (here on HR) Coolermaster 212 Plus or Evo - I don't remember which one.

Thank you for the wish of good luck...think I'm going to need it. Can't imagine this build will happen without issue.

I will be sure to post my potential build tomorrow....in a separate thread....and sleep on it tonight. I'm hoping I can take advantage of any Labor Day sales that might be in the works. Sure hope a few of you guys will take a look before I pull the trigger.
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