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First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
11-13-2013, 10:19 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-13-2013, 10:28 AM by Rapajez.)
#11
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
1. You need a Bluetooth antenna. Some motherboards have these built in, but yours is not one of them. You have a couple options, yuo can swap to a mobo with Bluetooth, buy a card PCI-E that slips in, like this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...2E114C2898 , or get a USB adapter. I hear the USB adapters aren't quite as fast or reliable though.

2. Actually same answer as above. You need it built in, an expansion card, or a USB dongle. The specific card I linked actually adds both Bluetooth and WiFi. Just make sure you have enough slots for your sound card too, if you get one. (although that can be USB as well.)

3. Yes, the Cooler comes with thermal paste.

4. I honestly think a good "Mechanical" keyboard is worth the money. It's hard to describe without trying one, but the keys all have a great weigh/bounce/clackity feel to them. It's not the most important priority, but I think you notice a great feeling keyboard more than a small performance or overclocking boost. There's a few good recommendations in the latest budget article.

5. No such things as too much power. It won't waste power. They'll be less stress on the PSU. You'll have longer life, stability, more headroom for overclocking, and maybe even drop a 2nd GPU in down the road (although that may be cutting it close.)

As far as reducing the budget, you could skip the SSD and pick one up later. I think they're great, but aren't crucial to the build. You could just migrate your data over to the SSD when you can afford it, or re-install Windows, worst-case.

You could also save the sound card for later, as the built in audio isn't terrible. The case fans and stock cooler will also get you by if you don't want to overclock, or mind the noise.

You should be fine on cables, if you don't buy a Optical Drive. I believe your mobo comes with 2 SATA (one for the HDD and one for the SSD).
GPU: NVIDIA Titan X, CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz OC'd @ 4.5GHz, Mobo: ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Mem: 2x Corsair Dominator 2133MHz 8GB, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO, Case: Corsair Carbide 500R, PSU: Corsair TX850M, CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14, Case Fans: 4x Cooler Master Excalibur 120mm PWM, Monitors: 3x ViewSonic VX2270SMH-LED in NVIDIA Surround
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11-15-2013, 01:30 AM,
#12
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
If I choose not to overclock, would you recommend a different overall build? I noticed in the tier .5-2 article, it seems to basically be built on the premise that in order to build a gaming computer effectively in that price range, overclocking is required, presumably because a fan is cheaper than upgrades to your various components?

I guess what I'm realizing is that my goals seem to be a bit misaligned with what I have built so far, and I wonder if I'm better off being a bit more focused. For instance, I doubt i'll ever really expand beyond 2x8GB RAM at any point soon, and don't feel a serious need to overclock if I can get something that works well enough for my gaming needs without doing so. I value a computer that runs quieter and (hopefully) less hot than I do getting the most out of my various parts, which seems to suggest overclocking may not be necessary.

It's possible (read: certain) that I'm overthinking this due to the wait until black friday, but in poking around a bit more I noticed that I really like the Fractal Design Core Node 304 Mini ITX case. From what I see of some sample builds, it seems like it could probably handle most of what I want. So I figured I would ask if any of you think it's possible to make a computer with this build that can:

1. Play games like Civ 5, Diablo 3 at some reasonable level of graphics (something like 1920x1080 ideally)
2. Act as a home theater PC (not super crucial - I think what I mostly mean here is that I'd still need to get a reasonable monitor so that I can potentially watch things on this)
3. Not run super hot (I believe this is more of a concern for Mini ITX, based on what I've read, though is it possible to just avoid this by not overclocking?)
4. Have bluetooth, wifi, etc. as I wanted before.
5. Still be reasonably priced?

I tried this, and it seemed like Mini ITX has a lot of fundamental price increases (more expensive motherboard, etc.), which may make it hard, but I wasn't sure. One thing I did notice is that in the article, it mentions that the BitFenix cases are the only recommended Mini ITX cases around - is there a particular reason why the Core Node 304 isn't recommended? Also, I guess this is probably a more important question than the above to some extent, if you don't overclock can you usually just go with the system fans? Is there then a preference towards Intel for performance over AMD?

On the mechanical keyboard, it does sound quite interesting, and from what I have seen now they do seem to be certainly worth trying. My fear is that they seem to have many types of keys with slight differences and are quite expensive, so I wouldn't want to get it wrong and end up with an expensive keyboard I really don't like. Does anyone have any strong feelings on why one type is better than the others, or what certain keyboards are particularly good for? I'll note that for most of the games I play, I would almost never use the number pad (this is supported by the fact that I have very large hands and rarely need it).

This is all pretty interesting stuff :-)

(11-13-2013, 10:19 AM)Rapajez Wrote: 1. You need a Bluetooth antenna. Some motherboards have these built in, but yours is not one of them. You have a couple options, yuo can swap to a mobo with Bluetooth, buy a card PCI-E that slips in, like this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...2E114C2898 , or get a USB adapter. I hear the USB adapters aren't quite as fast or reliable though.

2. Actually same answer as above. You need it built in, an expansion card, or a USB dongle. The specific card I linked actually adds both Bluetooth and WiFi. Just make sure you have enough slots for your sound card too, if you get one. (although that can be USB as well.)

3. Yes, the Cooler comes with thermal paste.

4. I honestly think a good "Mechanical" keyboard is worth the money. It's hard to describe without trying one, but the keys all have a great weigh/bounce/clackity feel to them. It's not the most important priority, but I think you notice a great feeling keyboard more than a small performance or overclocking boost. There's a few good recommendations in the latest budget article.

5. No such things as too much power. It won't waste power. They'll be less stress on the PSU. You'll have longer life, stability, more headroom for overclocking, and maybe even drop a 2nd GPU in down the road (although that may be cutting it close.)

As far as reducing the budget, you could skip the SSD and pick one up later. I think they're great, but aren't crucial to the build. You could just migrate your data over to the SSD when you can afford it, or re-install Windows, worst-case.

You could also save the sound card for later, as the built in audio isn't terrible. The case fans and stock cooler will also get you by if you don't want to overclock, or mind the noise.

You should be fine on cables, if you don't buy a Optical Drive. I believe your mobo comes with 2 SATA (one for the HDD and one for the SSD).
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11-15-2013, 08:27 AM,
#13
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
Overclocking isn't required, it is simply available as an option for those who want to get all the extra performance possible.

Overclocking will indeed increase heat output and most likely noise (as fans will have to spin faster to get rid of the heat).

The reason that I recommend the BitFenix cases is that they are just far better in my opinion. They offer great cooling, are relatively easy to use for a build (not too cramped up) and offer enough clearance to use an optical drive, a big video card, a good CPU Cooler and an ATX power supply. Simply put, for a first time builder (we have quite a few of those here on HR), the BitFenix case makes it a lot easier to build without worrying about possible incompatibilities and difficulties assembling the PC.

That said, building a Mini-ITX PC in the Core Node 304 is definitely possible.

1. If you want to play games at 1080p, the integrated video card in the AMD A-series APU isn't going to cut it. Civ is particularly CPU intensive, so an Intel quad-core CPU is highly recommended.
2. Not a problem at all for a gaming PC. A good monitor and speakers or headphones will matter here.
3. This is where you'll want an Intel CPU, as they use less power and thus dissipate less heat than AMD CPU/APUs. They also offer higher performance, at an higher cost though.
4. Some Mini-ITX offer that onboard, otherwise you'll need USB dongles, seeing as Mini-ITX motherboards only have a single PCI-Express 16x expansion slot, which will be used by the video card.
5. There is a small price premium to Mini-ITX motherboards, cases and some parts that are required to fit in the smaller enclosure. You may want to consider a Micro-ATX build instead, seeing as there is no price premium there and less worries about cooling as well (allowing you to use more powerful components without worrying about overheating).

Regarding mechanical keyboards, this is an excellent guide to start with: http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechan...oard-guide

Oh, do yourself a favor and make sure to get some zipties, to help you organize the cables in a smaller case.

I'll be updating the Mainstream Gaming PCs article later today, make sure to take a look at it. Tier 3 should be a good match for your budget and requirements. With a few alternative parts, you should be able to build it in a smaller Mini-ITX case if you wish to.
Laptop: MSI GS30 Shadow-045 Dimensions: 12.6" x 8.9" x 0.8" 2.65lbs CPU: Intel Core i7-4870HQ Quad-Core + Hyper-Threading OC 2.5-3.9GHz RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Video Card: Intel Iris Pro 5200 Storage: 2x128GB SDD RAID0 Audio: ASUS Xonar U3 USB Sound Card + Audio-Technica ATH-M50 headphones Screen: 13.3" - 1920 x 1080 IPS + 27" Dell P2715Q IPS 3840 x 2160 Keyboard: Filco Majestouch MX Cherry Blue Mouse: Logitech MX518
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11-15-2013, 09:15 AM,
#14
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
Wow, that keyboard guide is amazing.

Honestly, ANY mechanical keyboard is going to be such a big improvement, that you shouldn't have to sweat the choices too much. Almost like going from a HDD to an SSD...for your fingers?

I tend to go with the Cherry Brown switches, b/c they're a nice balance between typing (Blue) and gaming (Red or Black), as the article states.
GPU: NVIDIA Titan X, CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz OC'd @ 4.5GHz, Mobo: ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Mem: 2x Corsair Dominator 2133MHz 8GB, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO, Case: Corsair Carbide 500R, PSU: Corsair TX850M, CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14, Case Fans: 4x Cooler Master Excalibur 120mm PWM, Monitors: 3x ViewSonic VX2270SMH-LED in NVIDIA Surround
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11-19-2013, 03:17 PM,
#15
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
Any thoughts on the Amazon deals today for my build? At first they looked intriguing, but the more I think about it the more it feels like I'll probably be better off waiting until Black Friday/Cyber Monday?

I will certainly check out that keyboard guide though.

(11-15-2013, 09:15 AM)Rapajez Wrote: Wow, that keyboard guide is amazing.

Honestly, ANY mechanical keyboard is going to be such a big improvement, that you shouldn't have to sweat the choices too much. Almost like going from a HDD to an SSD...for your fingers?

I tend to go with the Cherry Brown switches, b/c they're a nice balance between typing (Blue) and gaming (Red or Black), as the article states.
Reply
11-20-2013, 09:49 AM,
#16
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
Well, most of them are gone now, but the Creative Sound Card seems like it might be a good deal.

And yes, they'll be plenty more of this during Black Friday. Especially when it comes to older generation equipment they're trying to clear out. (Radeon 7000 series, Intel 3XXX Ivy Bridge series, etc)
GPU: NVIDIA Titan X, CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz OC'd @ 4.5GHz, Mobo: ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Mem: 2x Corsair Dominator 2133MHz 8GB, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO, Case: Corsair Carbide 500R, PSU: Corsair TX850M, CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14, Case Fans: 4x Cooler Master Excalibur 120mm PWM, Monitors: 3x ViewSonic VX2270SMH-LED in NVIDIA Surround
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11-21-2013, 11:58 AM, (This post was last modified: 11-21-2013, 12:11 PM by MathieuB.)
#17
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
Okay, so (as always), I've been thinking about this more and have decided I want to try a Mini ITX build, both for the challenge and because I care about:

1. Small Form Factor
2. Simple/Quiet over performance, no need to overclock

So I tried a new build based on this idea, and ended up here. I'd love any thoughts! This is fairly close to where I want to end up, so any tweaks and whatnot would help.

*Link deleted. Do not link to websites with affiliate links.*

I went with the 4570s for now since I think the low heat signiture makes sense for my needs. I didn't get an after market cooler since I'm not sure if I need one or if one would fit. Do you think this is necessary? If so, any recommendations?

The motherboard I think is amazing. It supports higher frequency ram for potential upgrades, and has both bluetooth and wifi onboard (which seems insane). Interestingly, I wasn't able to find a single MicroATX mobo with these same properties that also supported my processor.

RAM seems like a solid deal at 130 for 16gb and a good speed. I don't really feel the need to upgrade the speed further, since from what I've read the performance improvements are minor

Not sure on the video card, but I think this will be effective for what I want. Thoughts here would be good, I could see myself switching this based on black friday deals for sure.

I love the case. I think it's a good design, and though it may be a bit harder to work with than the BitFenix, I think it'll be worth it.

Power supply. Not sure on this, just followed the guide. I actually feel like this may be too much power for the system, but honestly I don't have a clue. I'd really like help here, since I know this is one way to mess up the build.

OS: Want to try windows 8

Monitor: I tried to get the best 27" monitor with fastest refresh rate that I could. This was the cheapest it got, but actually still had solid reviews. I may switch this up based on deals, but generally those are my goals with this slot.

Keyboard: Wanted to try a mechanical keyboard. This seemed well reviewed, doesnt have number pad (which I never use anyway, even when I probably should for some games), and is reasonably cheap

Mouse: Already have a nice wireless USB mouse.

Things I still need to get (please add to this!):
Shorter Cables for power supply
Cooler?
Cable Ties?

Also, any recommended guides on cable management? I'm sure it will be fairly relevant for this small case build.

Thanks again! Sorry about all the questions...


(11-20-2013, 09:49 AM)Rapajez Wrote: Well, most of them are gone now, but the Creative Sound Card seems like it might be a good deal.

And yes, they'll be plenty more of this during Black Friday. Especially when it comes to older generation equipment they're trying to clear out. (Radeon 7000 series, Intel 3XXX Ivy Bridge series, etc)
Reply
11-21-2013, 12:12 PM, (This post was last modified: 11-21-2013, 12:12 PM by MathieuB.)
#18
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
Please link to Newegg/Amazon or the seller's website. Links to websites containing affiliate links are not allowed on the forums. Thanks.
Laptop: MSI GS30 Shadow-045 Dimensions: 12.6" x 8.9" x 0.8" 2.65lbs CPU: Intel Core i7-4870HQ Quad-Core + Hyper-Threading OC 2.5-3.9GHz RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600MHz Video Card: Intel Iris Pro 5200 Storage: 2x128GB SDD RAID0 Audio: ASUS Xonar U3 USB Sound Card + Audio-Technica ATH-M50 headphones Screen: 13.3" - 1920 x 1080 IPS + 27" Dell P2715Q IPS 3840 x 2160 Keyboard: Filco Majestouch MX Cherry Blue Mouse: Logitech MX518
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11-21-2013, 01:46 PM,
#19
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
I just don't really feel like going through and making all the links when it's organized nicely on that site, so I guess there's no straightforward way for me to do this. I'll ask for advice elsewhere.

Thanks again to both of you for your help.

(11-21-2013, 12:12 PM)MathieuB Wrote: Please link to Newegg/Amazon or the seller's website. Links to websites containing affiliate links are not allowed on the forums. Thanks.
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11-21-2013, 04:00 PM,
#20
RE: First Computer Build, Advice Appreciated!
Well, good luck anyway. Keep a first aid kit handy, working in Mini-ATX builds can be dangerous...depending on the case quality. I definitely left a lot of blood inside my grandma's mini-build.
GPU: NVIDIA Titan X, CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz OC'd @ 4.5GHz, Mobo: ASRock Z77 Extreme4, Mem: 2x Corsair Dominator 2133MHz 8GB, SSD: Samsung 850 EVO, Case: Corsair Carbide 500R, PSU: Corsair TX850M, CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14, Case Fans: 4x Cooler Master Excalibur 120mm PWM, Monitors: 3x ViewSonic VX2270SMH-LED in NVIDIA Surround
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